INTRO
[00:00:00]
Charlie Jelen: Welcome to Cool Air Hot Takes. I'm Charlie Gillon.
Dan Gentry: And I'm Dan Gentry. Every couple of weeks, we get together and bring you guys the latest news in HVAC, our hot takes, and expert interviews with industry leaders.
Charlie Jelen: This week we're joined by Dean Hansen, chief facilities officer at Ole Miss, who's using energy-saving contracts to tackle a problem they weren't really built for. It's not the way most people use them, and that's exactly the point
listener also, I had some last minute travel that came up, and I wasn't there for the interview, and so Mr. Gentry had to do it all by himself. Very proud of you for stepping up and taking that on.
Dan Gentry: it was a lotta, a lot of weight, um, but I, I got through it. I think it was pretty good.
Charlie Jelen: I'm excited to see how it came out.
Dan Gentry: to add to that, we have our latest HVAC headlines and of course your stat of the day.
But first, some hot takes.
HOT TAKES
Charlie Jelen: Some hot takes. We had a, a bunch of people send in [00:01:00] hot takes or commentsto the inbox. If you ever have one, listener, coolair.hottakes@trane.com. Uh, one of them caught my eye, and so I'm gonna do a, a listener hot take. We do this every once in a while,
Dan Gentry: you know?
I like it.
Yep.
Charlie Jelen: He asked to, to remain anonymous. Okay.
and, uh, based on his title, he's some sort of electrical optimization engineer at an engineering company.
All right? His hot take is titled "The Efficiency Paradox,"
Uh, what he says here is, "If better cooling makes computing cheaper, does the industry actually save energy or just use the savings to run more AI? My hot take is all energy saving strategies are never realized with data centers because they just port all the savings back into the compute."
So that was his hot take, and I both agree and disagree
Dan Gentry: Yeah, I was gonna say, I imagine that's generally what I hear from like when they talk about operating these, it's like- Yeah ... if the, you know, like we talk about redundancy, if the chillers are [00:02:00] there, they're probably gonna run them. They don't just like sit and have one idle. Like, they'll use the capacity- Yeah
that they, that they have 'cause it can be profitable. So that- Right ... that makes a lot of sense, but why do you disagree?
Charlie Jelen: Well, I, on the design side, like ifif, a data center operator gets 500 megawatts of electrical power They're not gonna give any of that back.
They're gonna use it. And so it comes down to the design. It's the PUE of the data center, the, the power use effectiveness or the efficiency of all of the ancillary components. The more efficient the ancillary components are, the more compute you can put into the building. Mm-hmm. and so that 500 megawatts that's flowing in, it's going into something. But where I disagree with Jeff is that the more efficient we make data centers, the less of them we need. So if we can pack more compute in every data center, eventually we will need less quantity of data centers. Right now is a really bad example because the build-out is so, is so wild, the scale is so huge.
But [00:03:00] eventually, like if we built really inefficient data centers, we would need to have more of them for the same amount of compute. So if we can design them, if we can operate them more efficiently today and in the design phase today, we'll need less of them long term.
Dan Gentry: I-- That's hot. That's g-
Charlie Jelen: That's my, that's my take.
It's my take on it. But thank you for emailing the inbox. You have some schwag coming your way.
Dan Gentry: That was great. Thank you. good take on the take.
So mine is our food chain or our food supply will be secured through HVAC cybersecurity.
Charlie Jelen: Okay. Yes.
Dan Gentry: And so when we get to the headlines, this'll, illuminate a little more. I like it. But like in, if you think about all these, HVAC systems, most of them have control systems, and a lot of them are connected to the internet, and- Oh, yeah
a lot of them are, um, I'm gonna say like maybe accidentally or mistakenly, um, accessible to like the public on the internet. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And especially when we're talking about hackers and that kind of stuff, they can get in and manipulate the controls, [00:04:00] and if you think about thawing a, warehouse of freezers or medical supplies or, like think about refrigerated trucks,
There's some serious vulnerabilities- Yep ... there, and the cybersecurity we use to protect our HVA systems will protect our food supply.
Charlie Jelen: I like it. I like it. Yeah. That was a good one.
up next, your HVAC headlines.
HVAC HEADLINES
Charlie Jelen: All right, listener. It's 9:43 in Del, Wisconsin.
Dan Gentry: Oh. Here's your headlines.
picked Dell, Wisconsin
Charlie Jelen: is 'cause that's where my dad is right now, and he is celebrating his retirement party tomorrow.
Dan Gentry: Happy retirement, Paul.
Charlie Jelen: Yeah. That's right. I think he did, like, some crazy 42, 43 years at Gundersen.
Dan Gentry: Wow, good for him.
Charlie Jelen: all right. Headline number one: HVAC plumbing work still well out of robots' reach, study finds. This is from Home Pros. I find it fascinating, like, y- when, [00:05:00] when people think of robots, I think they think of people robots, like humanoid robots. But, like, robots are, are
Dan Gentry: anything. It can just be an arm. Yeah, exactly. You know?
Charlie Jelen: Or a cart that moves stuff back and forth. All right. So it's, it's a broad category, a-and so as I read through this article, I was like, "Oh yeah, okay, this makes more sense." but let me read it here a little bit.
Uh, "A new Anthropic study suggests it'll be decades before the machines take over. For now, robots mostly need to operate in highly structured environments like factories, plus they're still way too expensive to displace humans. For robots to be cost competitive for 10% of human work today, costs would need to decline about 70%."
"At a 3% decline per year, that would take around 40 years." Yeesh. All right. So Anthropic examined 900 occupations, breaking specific tasks involved for each job, or breaking down specific tasks for each job. For each task, the study assigned a zero if a robot could not do it at all, and a one, [00:06:00] two, or three if a robot could do the task in a specialized setting like an assembly line, a structured human work facility like a logistics warehouse, or in an unstructured environment like a city road,
So each occupation was given a robot exposure score of between zero, meaning a robot can't do it at all, and a three, meaning it is eminent in short order that it will be taken over or already has been taken over by a robot.
Plumbers, pipe fitters, and steam fitters have a score of a 0.5. A roofer, .51. Refrigeration mechanics, .46. And electricians, .33
Dan Gentry: This is interesting. I'm, like, genuinely curious to see how they carried out this study and, like, scored it. I know. Like, what tasks were they actually doing?
Charlie Jelen: Yeah. I, I agree. Um, but to put it into perspective, a taxi driver score is a 2.2.
taxi drivers are going away, right?
They're gonna get replaced by robots. They already are in some cities, [00:07:00] and eventually it's-- they're all going away. that's eight times higher than, the lowest MEP.
Yeah.
Dan Gentry: Hey, job security of tradesmen. It is.
Charlie Jelen: All right. Now, the other thing that, like, went with this article is, like, okay, so where are robots being used in the MEP space?
Dan Gentry: Oh, okay.
Charlie Jelen: Okay? Can you think of one?
Dan Gentry: I would just think, like, moving, basic moving stuff. Right. Like carts, I
Charlie Jelen: where my head went too. I was like, it's gotta be something in moving steel or moving pipe from one place to another."
Dan Gentry: some welding,
Charlie Jelen: Yeah, robotic welders. We have some of those in La Crosse in the factory, right?
So the, the most common used in construction today is the Hilti Jaibot
Dan Gentry: I, I
Charlie Jelen: It's an automated driller that uses a BIM model to place anchor bolts in the ceiling of concrete structures.
I had to go look it up 'cause I was like, "I don't know what the heck that is." And so, like, as the building's getting built, it's just, like, a wide open floor plate.
it's just concrete one floor and [00:08:00] concrete on the ceiling, right? And so this robot just goes, and it's got, like, a driller arm, and it just moves around the floor, and it drills holes up into the ceiling for anchorage.
Dan Gentry: And you, like, load your BIM model- Yeah ... into the robot, so it's got the plans, and it just- Yeah ... knows.
Charlie Jelen: just goes and starts drilling.
Dan Gentry: That seems very, like, unique and specific, and I wouldn't have thought of that. I know. But I mean, it makes sense.
Charlie Jelen: agree. I thought that was pretty cool.
Dan Gentry: like a tedious thing to do.
Yeah.
Charlie Jelen: Well, listener, if you've got, uh, if you've got examples of robots in MEP, reach out. coolair.hottakes@trane.com.
Dan Gentry: All right, headline two, uh, what to know about the cyber attack that targeted supermarket refrigeration systems in France.
Charlie Jelen: Okay. We were on this, by the way.
Like three episodes ago, we brought up the, refrigeration attack. they were accusing Iran of it, but we were on that early. We were trying to warn
Dan Gentry: people.
Charlie Jelen: and it, and they strike again.
Dan Gentry: and when I, when I saw this too, like it popped up in the news, and I was like, "Wait, didn't we already talk [00:09:00] about this?" I'm like, "Wait, no, this just happened two days ago." Yeah.
So this is a thing.
Charlie Jelen: we don't have many listeners in, in France.
Dan Gentry: I-- Come on. Parlez-vous français? All right.
Couple, uh, some information here, Um, supermarket staffers were confronted by pools of water beneath freezers and spoiled produce earlier this week after hackers took control of refrigerators in hundreds of grocery stores across France.
Hundreds. That's- Crazy
Charlie Jelen: Targeted attacks. Or, or, uh, what, what, what's it? Uh, coordinated. Coordinated attacks. Yeah.
Dan Gentry: you go. So around 700 food retailers were impacted by the nationwide cyber attack in which hackers remotely connected to refrigeration equipment, switched on defrost cycles that led to the loss of large quantities of fresh and frozen goods, according to CNN affiliate BFMTV.
So here's what you need to know. Who caused the attack? Well, no group or individual has yet claimed responsibility for the attack. The fact that hackers have not publicly demanded a [00:10:00] ransom, as is often the case, suggeststheir primary aim was little more than to cause mischief or unsettle the public, according to Ken Murno, a UK-based cybersecurity analyst.
So I read through this article, and for, like, what it was, so many people just ignored, vulnerabilities, and people were told, like, "Hey, your systems are outdated.
You haven't had updates. Your systems are accessible online." And like- Mm-hmm ... It was just failure, failure- Yeah ... failure to, like, acknowledge, the situation. I get it, like, control systems are expensive, and they're not, like, sexy. Yeah, yeah.
So that was pretty interesting.
Charlie Jelen: I like it. All right, listener. Next up, we got our guest interview with Dean Hansen. Don't go anywhere
AD BREAK I
Charlie Jelen: Ninety-eight, ninety-nine, one dollar, Bob
Dan Gentry: Charlie, you're counting coins when there are huge tax incentives waiting to be claimed.
Charlie Jelen: Tax incentives for what?
Dan Gentry: Well, for lowering your energy [00:11:00] bills with thermal energy storage. It comes with up to a forty percent federal credit.
Charlie Jelen: How can a credit make it pay for itself that fast?
Dan Gentry: Well, the credit handles the upfront investment while the system cuts your daily operating costs.
Charlie Jelen: So the investment is covered and my bills are lower?
Dan Gentry: Yep. Ready to make a withdrawal? Just contact your Trane account manager.
INTERVIEW WITH DEAN
Dan Gentry: All right, listener, we got a little bit of a special for you this week. my trusty co-host is actually out on assignment, so you got me today. this week's guest, takes care of about 200 buildings running on the University of Mississippi.
He's the assistant vice chancellor. and chief facilities officer at Ole Miss. Go Rebels. And like a lot of people in his seat, he's dealing with equipment that's decades old, and there's never enough budget to replace it. His solution, energy savings performance contracts, also known as ESPCs.
Dean, welcome to Cool Air, Hot Takes.
Dean Hansen: Well, thanks for having me. I'm glad to be [00:12:00] here
Dan Gentry: Awesome. Love it. So we like to kick off all these interviews with a hot take from our guest. I'm guessing yours might have something to do with ESPCs, but what do you got?
Dean Hansen: my hot take is that we're using an ESPC, an energy savings performance contract, in a non-traditional way, not just to attack energy savings, but to also address our deferred maintenance needs on campus
Dan Gentry: Oh, that's very interesting.we're definitely gonna dig into that one a lot more as we get through here. So you oversee about 9
million square feet at Ole Miss. Uh, for anyone who's never run a campus before, what does your world look like day to day?
Dean Hansen: So on a daily basis, we manage all of the operations and maintenance associated with the facilities and grounds of the university. So that includes, um, custodial services, building maintenance services, utilities and infrastructure, roads, streets, [00:13:00] hardscapes, and then the landscape around the campus as well
Dan Gentry: Okay. So, uh, out of curiosity, with 9 million square feet, how many people does it take to run something like that?
Dean Hansen: Uh, so we're pretty lean here actually compared to some of our peers, but we've got a- about 350 or so staff that takes care of all of that space and grounds on campus.
Dan Gentry: That's very cool. I tell you what, one day my, uh, my retirement job, I'd like to be a groundskeeper, like just mowing lawns at a big campus or mowing the football field. I think that would just be a great, job someday.
Dean Hansen: Yeah, something that doesn't require a lot of thought.
Dan Gentry: Yes, put my headphones on and cut some grass. What a, what a great day. Um, so I understand Mississippi, uh, can be a low bid state.
walk us through what happens in practice? say you want a specific control system or a specific piece of equipment. What does that look like?
Dean Hansen: Yeah. So as, as a public university, we're governed by the, um, the public procurement laws in Mississippi for how [00:14:00] we, we purchase things. And they've got thresholds where we have different levels of authority. So below $5,000, we can pretty much go to whoever we want and buy whatever we want.
nobody scrutinizes that. Between $5,000 and $75,000, we're required to get two quotes, and then we can make a purchase off of the two competitive quotes. Anything above $75,000 typically has to go through a request for, proposal process or an invitation for bids process. And those are governed by specific regulations on exactly how the proposals have to be, solicited, received, and evaluated.
And typically, it's the lowest price wins on all of those large purchases over $75,000. And as you can imagine, within the facility space, you can't really get a whole lot [00:15:00] under $75,000, at least not nowadays.
Dan Gentry: so then how does the ESPC change that? how does it let you, uh, do something that a normal bid can't?
Dean Hansen: So under a normal bid process, um, especially for building systems, typically, we would hire a design professional to come in, design w-whatever project we're doing. Let's say we're replacing an HVAC system in the building. So we'd hire a mechanical engineer to come in, design the system, spec out the products, put construction documents together, and then we take those documents and put them on the street in a solicitation. that would sit out there for 30 to 60 days. Contractors who are interested in the project would then bid on it. We would open up the bids, low price wins as long as they're a responsive contractor. The issues associated with that process is we have very limited control [00:16:00] on the type of equipment that we get, and really the quality of equipment that we can get.
We can put performance specifications in the bid documents, uh, but we can't put preferred brands, we can't limit the competition by, um, putting really tight performance criteria that limits it to only one or two vendors. So the specifications have to be fairly broad, so a wide range of vendors can bid on it. Um, the problem is, there's a lot of different vendors out there who provide, um, components and equipment that varies widely in quality, in design life, in their maintainability and the performance associated with it. And we don't really have any control over what we get out of that design bid build process.
The energy savings performance [00:17:00] contract is, authorized under Mississippi law as a separate procurement vehicle. And what that allows us to do is we can partner with the vendor as a design build process rather than design bid build, and we can, really hone in on specific requirements that we have, and in some cases name the, preferred suppliers of the equipment that our techs are used to working on, or that we know has, um, a good, long design life or performance characteristics that we're looking for.
And so we can really narrow, um, the scope of the vendors who can, respond, on the project and provide us the equipment that we, actually want
We can, we can specify our desires much more precisely under the [00:18:00] ESPC framework than we could under the design-bid-build framework
Dan Gentry: So it's really like a lever to get you what you want
Dean Hansen: That's right. And so, I mean, think about all of the different HVAC manufacturers out there. there's a dozen we could think of right off the top of our head. Well, each one of those manufacturers has different performance characteristics. They've got different maintenance requirements, maintenance techniques.
We've got an in-house maintenance staff here on campus, and they can't possibly be trained to work on every single brand of equipment effectively. And so we try to narrow the scope to, to, um, a few select brands of equipment that our technicians can become very proficient on, and it just helps us maintain that equipment better. It extends the life cycle. It helps us save money because we don't have to, um, [00:19:00] bring the OEM in to perform the maintenance on this equipment because we've got the tools and equipment necessary to maintain it.
Dan Gentry: Yeah, no, I was just thinking about that as you were answering 'cause I'm like, man, if you have a campus of that size, you got equipment all over. You got these folks that gotta maintain it. You probably wanna have some consistency there instead of getting, whatever the lowest bid. You could have 12 manufacturers or whatever the number is, and I would imagine that would be a headache, for maintenance. So that seems, uh, really valuable, uh, in that situation
Dean Hansen: And especially as the technology evolves in this space, when you think about building control systems, um, those vary widely and are very technical and complicated systems to control these buildings. And if you've got five or six different control systems on campus, you don't have anybody who's proficient in any one of those. we're trying to narrow it down to one [00:20:00] preferred control system for all of our buildings. We currently have three on campus that have, um, been permitted to bid on projects over the years. Um, and even three is,quite difficult to manage just from a training and technology updating perspective.
The servers, the hardware with it, that's evolving, um, faster than we can keep up
Dan Gentry: That's gotta be a bit of a headache at the end of the day.
Dean Hansen: It, it really is
Dan Gentry: Geez. Um, so when you're, choosing equipment or systems, how do you weigh what it costs upfront, against what it's gonna cost over the life or over time of the equipment?
how do you handle that?
Dean Hansen: Yeah. So in a, design-bid-build situation, that gets really hard to do because it's always, you know, lowest first cost typically wins the contract. Um, when you're in a design build, [00:21:00] uh, situation like we are with the ESPC, we can specify higher quality, higher efficiency equipment, um, with, known lower long-term maintenance costs because we're narrowing it down to specific brands that have those high performance characteristics and high maintainability characteristics. Um, so we can look at it from a more lifecycle cost perspective rather than the lowest first cost perspective.
Dan Gentry: I love that you guys are doing this 'cause, like,e-even my team, my group, we talk about all the time when we're, laying out new systems, designing systems. It's, not just the, the cheapest one. You gotta think about the life of the system. It has a cost of operation, has a cost of maintenance, and we, really try to, talk to our customers about the, the whole picture.
It's not just the day one price tag. It's the life of the equipment price tag and what that whole cost looks like. So I love that you guys, um, are looking at that. I think it's great[00:22:00]
Dean Hansen: Yeah, from a, from a building perspective, if you look at the entire building, the construction cost of a building is somewhere between 10 and 15% of the total lifecycle cost of the building. And, and the amount of time and the detail that you put into the design of that building and specifying the right components impacts that 85% lifecycle cost of that building
Dan Gentry: Interesting. I hadn't heard that metric, but, you know, it makes a lot of sense 'cause you're gonna build it once and then it's... You gotta deal with all these, materials and components that you put in there, and if they don't last as long, you're gonna pay for it
Dean Hansen: And especially for a, university campus or another institutional type setting as opposed to a commercial office building. we've got buildings here that date back from the 1800s. So our building life cycles are hundreds of years, [00:23:00] um, rather than just decades that you normally get in a, you know, a commercial structure
Dan Gentry: shifting gears a little bit, um, I wanna talk about, deferred maintenance.
Um, for those of us that hear the term and think, somebody's, like, not changing filters or something like that, what does this actually mean for a campus like yours?
Dean Hansen: Yeah, I'm glad you asked that question because deferred maintenance is a term that's often misunderstood. it sounds like negligence, right? we're just not maintaining it because we're just gonna push off the maintenance. Um, any building has a life cycle, and, um, even if you perfectly maintain that building and the components per the manufacturer's recommendations, um, those systems are going to degrade over time, right?
Um, and,
you can think about the HVAC systems, the plumbing systems, the electrical systems, the walls, the windows, the doors, and then the [00:24:00] interior finishes. of those things, even if you maintain them meticulously, they will eventually wear out.
And so, deferred maintenance is when you get to the point where we've reached the design life for, let's say, an HVAC system, and,
Dan Gentry: Mm-hmm
Dean Hansen: um, it's costing us more to maintain it to keep it operational. It's time to replace that equipment. Well, because of budgetary constraints or other factors, we may not be able to replace that equipment when its life cycle comes due. when that happens, it goes into the backlog and that is what's referred to as deferred maintenance. A more accurate term would be deferred capital renewal, because that's, that's really what it's about.
Dan Gentry: Sure. So it's not just like ignoring a simple filter change or maintenance thing, it's running your system, um, or piece of equipment, whatever it is, [00:25:00] past whatever the expected life of the system was. You're just keeping it operationally a little longer because you have to for budget reasons
Dean Hansen: that's exactly right.
Dan Gentry: so how does the ESPC help you chip away at that backlog, especially for upgrades that don't pay for themselves through energy savings?
Dean Hansen: Yeah. So just a little background for the listeners on what an ESPC is. So it's an energy savings performance contract, and the idea behind it is that we can find projects that generate enough energy savings that those savings finance the cost of the project. o-o-one that's a pretty obvious example and, one that's used often, is lighting upgrades. if we've got a building, um, that's operating incandescent lighting and we upgrade those light fixtures to LED, [00:26:00] we can cut the energy and heat load, which is another significant factor, but we can cut the energy use as a result of that change sometimes by as much as, 25% or 30% in, in a building, um, just because of the, lower electric wattage usage of the lights and then the lower heat load that's generated by the LED lighting versus the other lighting types Well, that 20 to 30% energy savings in that building, that was money we were gonna spend on utility bills, right? Well, we can take that savings now and use it to finance the capital cost of replacing that lighting. And so those types of projects have, a pretty short energy payback cycle. They will pay for themselves in a matter of, 10 years, 15 years, something that's measurable on, on a normal investment, um, [00:27:00] life cycle.
Dan Gentry: Mm-hmm.
Dean Hansen: In Mississippi and in, many other states, they allow other types of savings, to factor into an ESPC that can be used, also to finance the projects. One thing that we've taken advantage of with the deferred maintenance is something called capital cost avoidance.
So if we've, got a budget and we know we're gonna be replacing certain pieces of equipment, on a given interval, We're allowed to take those savings, that capital cost that we would have spent replacing that equipment, apply it as savings on the ESPC and finance the project that way.
Not every state allows us to do that. But in Mississippi, what that opens up for us is, um, these deferred maintenance projects under the ESPC that don't have a great payback. So when you replace an [00:28:00] HVAC system in a building or even components of an HVAC system in a building, those aren't low-hanging fruit.
You get some energy savings associated with those, but it's not nearly enough to have a simple payback in 10 or 15 years. So if you're just using energy savings as your criteria, um, you'd never be able to get your HVAC or, or deferred maintenance projects under an ESPC and have it pay back. Using the capital cost avoidance mechanism allows us to have that payback and allows us to include those types of projects under the ESPC. that's where most people don't use an ESPC that way
Dan Gentry: Before we talked, I wasn't even aware that was a thing, so I'm sure a listener will be in the same boat.
Um, so wrapping up here, this, uh, last part here, I like to think of this as the magic wand [00:29:00] question. So wave your magic wand. Uh, if you could change anything about, uh, this industry or this program, you get to pick, uh, what would you change?
What would you make better?
Dean Hansen: I think for, owners, um, ESPCs are pretty complicated contracts to work through. it can be a ripe area for, for fraud, waste, and a-abuse by less than scrupulous companies coming in and taking advantage of the ignorance of, institutional owners on, what this type of contract is. So if, if I could change anything, it would be just better education tools out there for folks that are, like, in my position, so that they can be better prepared to [00:30:00] enter into these contracts and not get taken advantage of by these, less than honest companies that are out there
Dan Gentry: Sure. The more you know, the better. Gotta be educated on this stuff.
Dean Hansen: sir
Dan Gentry: I love it. Well, Dean, thanks for joining the show, and, uh, you take care
Dean Hansen: Well, I really enjoyed it, and I appreciate the invitation and the conversation
AD BREAK II - Symbio Training - Repeat ad 5/4/26
STAT OF THE DAY
Dean Hansen: So I brought, uh, the stat of the day today.
Charlie Jelen: You did. You did.
Dan Gentry: And, uh, because we were talking to Dean about campuses and universities and all these buildings, I was like, "I'm gonna poke around for something related to that, that I think would be interesting."
So I asked the old, uh, the internet- Yeah ... what the five largest universities by building square footage is. Okay. Building square footage.
Charlie Jelen: All right, let me take a guess here at a couple. University of Minnesota, University of Texas, University of Arizona
Dan Gentry: let's kick it off with number five. Okay. Number five, Texas A&M. [00:31:00]
Charlie Jelen: Ooh.
Dan Gentry: Close. So they have 24-plus million square feet amongst 450-ish buildings. Okay. University of Florida.
Charlie Jelen: Oh, okay. That's a good one. Yeah.
Dan Gentry: again, in the 24 million range with around 400 buildings.
Bringing this one back home to the University of
Charlie Jelen: What?
Dan Gentry: 25-plus million with over 420 buildings. Sweet. Um, Harvard University comes in at number two at 25.6 million.
Charlie Jelen: Really? I would never have guessed that one.
Dan Gentry: buildings.
Charlie Jelen: Wow.
Dan Gentry: it's, like, actually kinda hard to, grasp.
Charlie Jelen: Yeah, it just, in my head, like, Harvard's not a big university, but- I was wrong.
Dan Gentry: Number one, University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. No. 34- No ... plus million square feet. Wow. 580-plus
Charlie Jelen: Crazy.
I've been on that campus, actually.
I was in their, their central energy plant for some of their buildings. Should've guessed that one. Should've known.
The Big [00:32:00] House. Should've known with the stadium called The Big House that you've got a lot
Dan Gentry: a lot of s- I mean, they got 100-some thousand kids in there.
Yeah. Um, this is the last one. So, um,we have Gemini now, which has been really fun to use. So it puts a list together, and I thought this is great. Ties back to our earlier discussion. They list common risks and pitfalls of large campus footprints. The first thing on here, deferred maintenance backlogs.
Oh. Exactly what we were talking about. Because many of these historic institutions grew rapidly in the mid to late 20th century, billions of dollars are now required to update aging HVAC, electrical, and infrastructure systems.
Charlie Jelen: Spot on.
Dan Gentry: Huh. Pretty interesting, huh?
Charlie Jelen: I liked it. It was a good one.
OUTRO
Dan Gentry: All right. Thanks for listening to this episode of Cool Air Hot Takes. Remember, new episodes are released every two weeks on Tuesdays.
Charlie Jelen: Leave us a comment on Spotify or YouTube and a review on Apple.
Dan Gentry: And as you know, we've got merch. Send us your latest hot takes to coolair.hottakes@trane.com, and if we feature you on the show like we did today, you might find some of [00:33:00] that merch in your mailbox.
Until next time, stay cool and keep those takes hot.
